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 Post subject: Why Halo 3's MM is (so far) still better.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 2:19 pm 
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I'm going to get blasted for posting this, but you know what, most people who flame me are GoW fanboys who are programmed genetically to hate all Halo games.

Let me start by saying i was a HUGE Halo 2 fan, Halo 3, not so much, i ditched H3 as soon as i could for Gears1. However, time and time again Bungie has proved they not only can make a decent online multiplayer game, but they can make it work.

1)Disconnects. 80% of games i play, there is someone who disconnects BEFORE the game even loads.

2)Quitting. Quitting is nowhere near as big of a problem on halo 3 because of the....

3)Ranking System. There is no real visible way to see that your rank is getting hurt when you quit. Yeah it hurts your "stripes" a little bit, but no one really cares since its not immediately affecting you.

4)Lag/Standby Issues. Standbying hasn't been a problem since Halo 2, and it was fixed fairly quickly with a patch, same with mod-ing.

5)Gameplay Issues. Bungie even fixed the "noob combo" becasue it was getting overused. People critized halo by saying "anyone can run in there and throw grenades all day and get kills, gears takes skill!" Now look at Gears, smoke grenades being used to down people to get kills when they should be used for strategy, and people running around in crowds of people with their chainsaw revved just trying to run into someone, its sickening.

I'm not saying in anyway Gears and Halo are the same game, they aren't even in the same genre, but Halo 3 is constantly getting criticized by people who play Gears, so i figured I'd point out where Halo 3 exceeds. Epic has an amazing game on their hands, the Gear2 Campaign blew away the campaign from Halo 3, they just need to get their act together and fix the problems.


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 Post subject: Re: Why Halo 3's MM is (so far) still better.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 3:00 pm 
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ikillthings wrote:
...they aren't even in the same genre,

You know, that's a nice orange you've got there, but I'm going to have to say my apple is better.

Sorry, but you really can't compare the two games with their gameplay. They are on completely opposite ends of the spectrum. From camera type to weapon mechanics, all the way down to the physics engine. The only thing they share is shooting people.

As for Matchmaking, Halo uses a client/server based network model, just as Gears does. The difference is that Halo's model is predicting the client's environment.

Gears:________________________________Halo:
-Player presses "Fire" button_____________-Player presses "Fire" button
-Request is sent from client______________-Call made to server along with
to the master server to initiate____________client variable prediction
"Fire"_______________________________-Prediction output on client's screen
-Server accepts initialization,______________-Server outputs "Fire" on network
call is made to client
-Client initiates "Fire"
-"Fire" sent back to server
-Server outputs "Fire" on
network


For example, the call made in Halo's model might say {Player n standing at (x,y,z) used "Fire" at 13:02:57} and is instantly displayed on the client's screen, and as soon as the server receives the call is it output on to the network. It's really a brilliant idea. In the model for Gears, the client doesn't have control over when "Fire" is initiated; it has to wait for the server to accept it, THEN the bullet would actually leave the gun. Gears hides it with the tracer rounds.

And to be honest, why Halo's model isn't being used is beyond me. It's definitely more efficient, although if the host server has a slow download/upload stream, the game lags for EVERYONE, not just the clients affected (as is the case in Gears). Should the host disconnect from exceeding bandwidth, Halo has a nice feature called Host Migration which pauses the game, and selects a new host. Do I think Gears needs to use this system? Of course.

If your post is in retaliation from criticism of your interests, there's a much better solution: ignore it. Claiming someone is wrong only brings more arguments. Disregarding them completely makes them see how pointless it is to bash a person's interests. But as a general rule, not everyone has to agree with you, and not everyone has to have a reason. Almost all of your post is opinion and inference, yet you complain when those opinions and inferences are made against you... and that's the reason behind starting the thread?

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 Post subject: Re: Why Halo 3's MM is (so far) still better.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 4:19 pm 
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Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2008 6:09 pm
Posts: 405
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gears 2 matchmaking is garbage.
but how about you post about this at epic games forums.

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 Post subject: Re: Why Halo 3's MM is (so far) still better.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 4:25 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 1:00 pm
Posts: 137
Unromantic wrote:
ikillthings wrote:
...they aren't even in the same genre,

You know, that's a nice orange you've got there, but I'm going to have to say my apple is better.

Sorry, but you really can't compare the two games with their gameplay. They are on completely opposite ends of the spectrum. From camera type to weapon mechanics, all the way down to the physics engine. The only thing they share is shooting people.

As for Matchmaking, Halo uses a client/server based network model, just as Gears does. The difference is that Halo's model is predicting the client's environment.

Gears:________________________________Halo:
-Player presses "Fire" button_____________-Player presses "Fire" button
-Request is sent from client______________-Call made to server along with
to the master server to initiate____________client variable prediction
"Fire"_______________________________-Prediction output on client's screen
-Server accepts initialization,______________-Server outputs "Fire" on network
call is made to client
-Client initiates "Fire"
-"Fire" sent back to server
-Server outputs "Fire" on
network


For example, the call made in Halo's model might say {Player n standing at (x,y,z) used "Fire" at 13:02:57} and is instantly displayed on the client's screen, and as soon as the server receives the call is it output on to the network. It's really a brilliant idea. In the model for Gears, the client doesn't have control over when "Fire" is initiated; it has to wait for the server to accept it, THEN the bullet would actually leave the gun. Gears hides it with the tracer rounds.

And to be honest, why Halo's model isn't being used is beyond me. It's definitely more efficient, although if the host server has a slow download/upload stream, the game lags for EVERYONE, not just the clients affected (as is the case in Gears). Should the host disconnect from exceeding bandwidth, Halo has a nice feature called Host Migration which pauses the game, and selects a new host. Do I think Gears needs to use this system? Of course.

If your post is in retaliation from criticism of your interests, there's a much better solution: ignore it. Claiming someone is wrong only brings more arguments. Disregarding them completely makes them see how pointless it is to bash a person's interests. But as a general rule, not everyone has to agree with you, and not everyone has to have a reason. Almost all of your post is opinion and inference, yet you complain when those opinions and inferences are made against you... and that's the reason behind starting the thread?

You are one of the few intelligent xbox players I've met who knows what they're talking about when it comes to networking issues. No one seems to understand why "bullet lag" and "host advantage" is produced. It seems that the only games that use this skewed form of networking is the games on the UT3 engine. I don't know if developers are just leaving Epic's netcode in there or if it's just a coincidence, but Rainbow Six Vegas (and Vegas 2) produces the exact same network issues as Gears.

I don't understand why Epic is so low in standards when it comes to their multiplayer netcode. We had multiplayer netcode perfected back in 1998. It seems Epic really doesn't care about that. They're a prime example of a company that's just commercializing their game for sales.


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 Post subject: Re: Why Halo 3's MM is (so far) still better.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 4:49 pm 
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eww i hate halo. I think only the first one was good. i dont criticize halo compared to gears as they are not the same genre. I however criticize it compared to the other great fps' s out there *cough Half-Life *cough


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 Post subject: Re: Why Halo 3's MM is (so far) still better.
PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2008 5:40 pm 
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Snake Jr. wrote:
eww i hate halo. I think only the first one was good. i dont criticize halo compared to gears as they are not the same genre. I however criticize it compared to the other great fps' s out there *cough Half-Life *cough


half life sux balls. lol
i only have it for the mods. half life mods is the only purpose for its existance in ^_^

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 Post subject: Re: Why Halo 3's MM is (so far) still better.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 1:42 pm 
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i think bungie failed at the online aspect of halo. whoever starts shooting first is the one who gets the kill, its way too systematic for my blood. Gears takes more strategy and by strategy i don't mean skill. i mean flanking, teamwork, knowing wat to do and when, etc.


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 Post subject: Re: Why Halo 3's MM is (so far) still better.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 4:02 pm 
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halo3 sucks big hairy balls.

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 Post subject: Re: Why Halo 3's MM is (so far) still better.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 5:07 pm 
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CelticGear wrote:
Snake Jr. wrote:
eww i hate halo. I think only the first one was good. i dont criticize halo compared to gears as they are not the same genre. I however criticize it compared to the other great fps' s out there *cough Half-Life *cough


half life sux balls. lol
i only have it for the mods. half life mods is the only purpose for its existance in ^_^

o c'mon they made a physics engine [lol.gif]


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 Post subject: Re: Why Halo 3's MM is (so far) still better.
PostPosted: Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:11 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 1:00 pm
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CelticGear wrote:
Snake Jr. wrote:
eww i hate halo. I think only the first one was good. i dont criticize halo compared to gears as they are not the same genre. I however criticize it compared to the other great fps' s out there *cough Half-Life *cough


half life sux balls. lol
i only have it for the mods. half life mods is the only purpose for its existance in ^_^

I typed up a long reason why I think you're dumb for saying this, but I realized I really don't need to. If you don't like half-life, you aren't a real gamer.

And no, not because they "MADE A PHYSICS ENGINE!1" That doesn't even make sense. Every game has a physics engine, regardless of how simple or complex it is.


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